The Dig Doug Deeper/Tim god debate

Maggot Punks - The Amphetamine of the Masses

D-cubed started the debate by asking Tim what scientific evidence there was for the existence of a god. Tim naturally responded with a question asking D-cubed to present evidence for the lack of a god. Of course D-cubed instantly responded with a rebuttal to his demand that it is illogical to ask to prove a negative that it was the person who is making the positive claim to present the evidence. Tim, knowing he had nothing but the magic word "faith" refused to answer. But feeling frisky D-cubed played along.

First D-cubed said god couldn't be real because there is no scientific evidence. Being that gods have been around for thousands of years and nothing has been presented supporting the existence of a god it is a reasonable conclusion to make that there is no god. The theists aren't showing the Atheists otherwise, nor did Tim. Tim claimed there was scientific evidence but wanted all the evidence against a god presented first.

So D-cubed said there is evidence that humans created god, so he is nothing more than a fictional character like in Beauty and the Beast. D-cubed asked Tim how many gods there were. Tim said one, his god. So he was asked is the Islam god is the exact same as the Christian god. Tim said yes. However when asked if he accepts the teachings of Mohammad Tim said no and didn't want to talk about that but wanted to focus on the existence of god. D-cubed played along again since he wasn't getting anywhere with Tim's reluctance to answer questions. So Tim was asked whether or not Brahma, the Hindu god is the exact same as the Christian god (BTW, Tim said he is Jewish and Christian but didn't grasp the concept that Jews reject the divinity of Christ). Tim refused to answer this latest question saying "In Western thought…" It was a pathetic dodge since it didn't have anything to do with the subject his assumption that all Christians believe the exact same way. When asked if there was only one denomination or sect of Christianity he refused to answer. Although, contrary to what he thinks, there are Hindus in America, there were Native Americans with their Animism but we can only focus on what the White European believes since everything else isn't worth considering. Eventually Tim said the Hindu god was not the same as his god so he admitted there is more than one god. To get out of this he said the Hindu god wasn't real and it was created by humans like me. So I turned that back on him saying how it was that he could dismiss their god (he declares that Hindus believe in hundreds of gods contrary to Hindu belief that all these "other" gods are mere reflections of the one true god, Brahma), yet declare that his god was above human creation. He had no justification for his claim but my argument that gods are the creation of human intellect was sound.

Point three was the argument from evil. As defined to me by true Christians like Tim god is omniscient (therefore he knows how to get rid of evil), he is omnipotent (he has the power to rid the world of evil) and he is all-compassionate since the bible says god is love (therefore he has the desire to rid the world of evil). Yet evil exists so he is contrary to his definition and therefore can't exist since he approves and condones evil.

Point four was something I hinted at in point two that the fourth argument against god is the lack of cohesion of beliefs in Christianity. Tim hinted that he has all knowledge in the universe because his god is the only god that is real. He had argued that I must possess all knowledge in the universe in order to be an Atheist. He said that humans had only 20% of all knowledge in the universe so god could possibly reside in the other 80%. Asked how he quantified knowledge into tangible numbers he refused to answer, primarily because he is full of BS and just discards the need to support his claims but always demands that the Atheist does. Although Tim possesses all the knowledge in the universe, as does every other Christian there seems to be a lack of unity as there are hundreds of different sects, denominations, cults and so on in the Christian religion. If there was one god then they'd agree on the characteristics of this god. However, had god been the invention of the human imagination we would expect differences in the characteristics because god is reflected in the imagination of the person who created the god.

So there were four sound points so I asked Tim to present the scientific evidence for god that he claimed to have. Problem is Tim sees scientific fact as mere ideas so his evidence number one was the human eye. Since there are eyes there must be a god. It was mere assumption, not scientific fact because his statement is untestable.

Point number two was the existence of life on the planet. He claims that life is impossible anywhere else in the universe that doesn't match Earth. Had the planet been five degrees off the circular orbit of the sun it would be too hot or too cold to support life. However Tim didn't grasp the fact that the Earth travels in a ellipse around the sun so the distance from the sun varies. He refuses to accept astronomy.

His third point he went off on a tangent about the amount of our brain we use. He repeated some urban myth about how we only use 10% of our brain. Had we used all our brain (which is evident from PET scans) we wouldn't need to go to school because we'd have all the knowledge of the universe. Therefore he is arguing that our brains can't grow without knowledge (and that knowledge is some physical mass that takes space inside the skull I'm assuming). He refused to accept the existence of PET scanning technology which put a gawd size hole in his argument, also he denied that there are different parts of the brain that deal with sensory and motor functions apart from the autonomic functions contained in the cerebellum (D-cubed had to tell him about the cerebellum). Keep in mind D-cubed has a master's degree in experimental psychology and physiology is a required course in graduate as well as undergraduate psychology programs. Despite this Tim says he is more of an authority, he also believes the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

His fourth point was that life couldn't have come by without intelligent design (naturally begging the question where did the intelligent designer come from). This statement alone was his argument because he decided to prove his point by asking D-cubed a lot of questions about evolution. Tim said he went to an Evolution School (somewhere they have evolution schools, don't know where though since most schools teach a multitude of subjects). D-cubed asked him if his god was supernatural, Tim said yes. So he D-cubed followed up with the question how can someone test the supernatural while they are grounded in the natural world. Tim said people who use drugs can experience the supernatural. He didn't accept the fact that drugs only change the biochemistry in the brain and that it doesn't take the drug user to a different plane of reality.

As with all debates with scientifically illiterate creationists it was unfulfilling. Tim didn't want to ( or couldn't) present any scientific evidence, couldn't comprehend what science is, didn't care to listen to scientific facts, etc. All of his questions could have been answered with a simple philosophy class. I recommended he take a religion course at WSU so he could have learned that the Hebrew culture used to be polytheistic (even mentions multiple gods in the OT). However he has an aversion to learning, wouldn't even go to the hospital to learn about the PET machine.

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